What do these sessions stimulate?

  • Creator
    Topic
  • #29373
    xcskier
    Participant

    In a different thread (https://www.uphillathlete.com/forums/topic/30-30s-on-a-treadmill-at-incline/) Scott discusses what 30/30 session may target and stimulate.

    Say you are a skier/runner, what do the following sessions stimulate:
    1. 20x(30″ Z4 effort + 30″ coasting) — This one has already been answered
    2. 20x(45″ Z4 effort + 15″ coasting)
    3. 8x(60″ Z4 + 45″ Z4 + 30″ Z4 + 15″ Z4 with 15″ coasting in between)
    4. 8x(30″ effort + 30″ rest), effort is close to all out (say 115% of your anaerobic threshold pace = Z4 but faster than effort in #1, #2, #3)
    5. 8x(30″ effort + 90″ rest), effort is close to all out

    #1, #2 and #3 have the same speed, but different duration of effort and rest
    #4 and #5 are a bit faster, but have different recovery

    There’s always these subtle differences (how fast you go, how fast and how long is your
    recovery) that may completely change the stimulus.

  • Keymaster
    Scott Semple on #29376

    To me, this is like asking, “What’s your favorite kind of chocolate?”

    I’m not saying there’s no difference; there is. It’s just finer variations of the same thing. They’re all similar and could be used together. And what they progress to would depend on the event being trained for. If I understand the speeds correctly, a possible progression could be:

    #5 -> #4 -> #1 -> #2 -> #3

    Keymaster
    Scott Johnston on #29567

    There is no ‘best’ interval training protocol. It depends on what event you are training for, your personal training history, Are you FT or ST dominant athlete, Are you needing more speed or more endurance.

    Examples 1,2,3 will have a powerful aerobic training effect because the rest is active and relatively short 1:1 or less.

    4 and 5 will have powerful anaerobic training effects and will be useful for developing anaerobic power/anaerobic endurance but need to be used sparingly if you event last more than 2-3 minutes.

    Scott

    Participant
    xcskier on #29598

    There is no ‘best’ interval training protocol. It depends on what event you are training for, your personal training history, Are you FT or ST dominant athlete, Are you needing more speed or more endurance.

    I know it’s hard to generalize, but if your race pace is for example 7:00 / mile (for an event longer than an hour), is there a good rule of thumb how fast the intervals should be
    for speed and for endurance? I presume not outrageously faster than your current (or desired)
    race speed.

    There was some great discussion of this in another thread about training for speed
    and endurance.

    Keymaster
    Scott Semple on #29653

    I prefer to use AeT as the denominator for all training intensity, so bear that in mind with the following percentages. (And with a well-conditioned athlete, AnT is often 105-108% of AeT.)

    For a one-hour event, while also incorporating sprints, over a macrocycle I would progress from 130% down to race pace (~107-108%) and from 80% up to race pace.

    Especially with the durations that you listed in your first post in this thread, it would pay to be precise and do this training by pace. That would necessitate a flat track or a treadmill.

    Keymaster
    Scott Semple on #29654

    And as Scott J. said, what you emphasize would vary with the athlete and their FT/ST mix.

    Participant
    xcskier on #30011

    For a one-hour event, while also incorporating sprints, over a macrocycle I would progress from 130% down to race pace (~107-108%) and from 80% up to race pace.

    This makes sense. So, one hard session would be on the fast side (Z4) of things and the other
    on the endurance side (Z2 progressing to Z3)?

    What are simple tests (without a biopsy) to determine FT/ST? Just looking at lactate values
    in some short event (like a 3K run)?

    Keymaster
    Scott Semple on #30045

    I think a sprint workout with samples after the final rep is pretty revealing (with the caveat that the volume of sprints will change the result).

    Try this:

    WORKOUT: 6x 8″ all-out uphill sprints with 3′ PASSIVE rest after each rep.

    * I usually sit for the first two minutes right after the sprint, and then slowly walk back down to the start in the third minute. It’s important that the rests are passive so that you don’t have active muscle reabsorbing lactate.
    * I would make sure you do these uphill unless you have a track history. It’s too easy to get injured doing all-out sprints on a flat course. The range of motion when sprinting uphill is less extreme, so less likely that you’ll pull something.
    * Make sure you warm up well before the sprints.
    * If you just wanted a test without the workout, you could do a Jan Olbrecht approach of one interval of 45″-90″ as hard as you can.

    TESTING: After either method, sit immediately after the last interval. (Put on a jacket if it’s chilly because you’ll be there a while). Test lactate at two-minute intervals starting on the third minute until you see lactate decline. So samples would be at 3′, 5′, 7′, etc.

    According to Steve Magness:

    “The lower the lactate levels, the more slow-twitch, while the opposite is true for fast-twitch. As a guideline a readinf 6 or less and you about as ST as you can get. Between 6 and 9 you are predomanantly ST. Anything between 10 and 14 and yopu have a mixture. Between 14 and 128 and you are more likely in the FT group, and anything above around 19 and you are deifntiely in the FT group.”
    ~ The Science of Running, p. 210

    Note that training history and volume will affect the results. When I started doing these I could get between 10 and 12. With similar training volume (~500 hours), but consistent volume of sprints in my program, I got up to 23. Then with more volume (~700+ hours), it dropped to 14.

    So… lots of variables! But if you test consistently, and note how your volume could be affecting the results, you should get a pretty good idea of what type of athlete you are.

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