Nose breathing

  • Creator
    Topic
  • #8275

    Coni
    Participant

    I have been training constantly for 6 years so far. For now my main goal is to be faster in the uphill ski touring.
    While reading the book I noticed I have been training wrongly all these years.
    Is my first time training with this program. I am in week 3 of transition period. I do not have access to lab tests.
    Here is my question!!!! According to the max HR my zone 1 is below 140 and zone 2 below 150 and zone 3 is below 172.
    If I apply the nose breathing rule I could be running nose breathing and my HR goes up till 162, above that I have to mouth breath. should I consider that as my AeT?
    For now I am trying to stick to the percentages.
    I am trying to do long zone 1 below 140 but it really feels super easy, a very slow jog, I do not get tired at all, I could go for ever. One day a week I go for a zone 2 HR150 and it does not feel different at all from the zone 1, it feels super easy and relax as well.
    I really don’t know if I am doing things right. Should I just keep going this way or should I go a bit faster???
    According to my projects (September), I was planning to do 8 weeks transition period, 8 weeks base period max strength training and 12 weeks base period muscular endurance…. I think I won’t do the specific training due to my main goal is to be faster in the uphill I feel is better to give more time to the base period. (And for the next training period to focus on a more specific goal)
    I would really appreciate any advice on this.
    Thanks

    • This topic was modified 2 years, 2 months ago by  Coni.
    • This topic was modified 2 years, 2 months ago by  Coni.

  • Keymaster
    Scott Johnston on #8331

    Constanza:

    Thanks for contacting us with your question. I have a few questions for you.

    You say you have been training consistently for 6 years with no improvement. What have you been doing for training?

    Do you use strength training?

    How are you determining the intensity zones you mention? Z1<140. Z2 < 150 etc?

    Nose breathing only works well for those with a good history of aerobic training. That is why 162 feels too fast.

    When I run flat to keep my HR low I have to go very slow and is not much difference between zone 1 or 2, feels super slow and easy. But as soon as I start going faster or uphill my HR goes up super fast above 160 so I am avoiding uphill to keep my HR low.

    This is typical for people with aerobic deficiency syndrome. Please read this: https://www.uphillathlete.com/what-is-it-that-enables-endurance/

    I have been reading the forum and I don’t know if I am doing things right. I wonder if I have the ADS.

    Yes I am pretty sure you have ADS. You should do all aerobic training in Z2, close to your aerobic threshold.

    I don’t know if I should keep on running at that pace or should I go faster or should I go easier.

    The only way to fix ADS is to train a lot in the aerobic zones 1 and 2

    Should I keep on running that amount of hours or should I increase the amount of time? (I can train as many hours a days as it is needed, as long as it helps me to improve).

    Duration is the biggest stimulus to aerobic adaptation. The more hours you spend in these zones the bigger the training effect. If you can train more hours in Z1-2 you will see greater improvements.

    I hope this helps.
    Scott


    Participant
    Coni on #8340

    Coni: I am going to reply to your many questions here in your post so that the answers can help you understand- Scott

    Thanks a lot for your answer, is really helpful.
    Sorry, I guess you have had this kind of questions so many times. YES many times. But that is why we have this forum

    Is not that I have not had any improvement. Of course I am better than 6 years ago. I am deffinitly stronger but still I feel I am as slow as I was then (maybe a bit faster because my touring gear is lighter)

    About the HR for zones I did a simple math. Max HR in the test 185, I add 5 so my Max HR is 190 thats 100% so 75% is 142 80% is 152 (yesterday when I wrote the question I rounded it because I didn’t have my notebook with me). Using the % of maxHR is a very approximate way to determine intensity zones. That is why we recommend getting tested. Another way is discussed here: https://www.uphillathlete.com/heart-rate-drift/. You might try using this method

    For all these years I have been training mostly high intensity body weight. Plyometrics and iso. I also train balance and coordination. One of my goals was not the get injured so I always worry about working quads and hamstring, biceps and triceps, abductor and adductor, core and so on, somehow to keep my body balance. And I have succeed in the not getting injured part. Now a days I feel I train just to stay at the same level I am, not getting better at all. Yes this is very common and is caused by ADS. You have done so much damage to your aerobic system with all this HIT it is going to take many, many months of consistent correct training to correct this

    The aerobic training besides when I go to the mountain was mostly short sessions. I used the bike instead of running. using cycling for training for a sport like ski touring is not going to give the bets results because cycling is not a weight bearing sport. You are seated on the bike and using very different movements from skiing

    The problem of those short “aerobic” sessions (30min or 40 min) it seems were not really aerobic. Because I was always pushing harder. I usually did them after a strength training session. Biking uphill or running up hill (at a little hill where I live).
    I have done several other things for training but I always end up going back to this high intensity strength training and short “aerobics”. (Running on HIIT, biking at higher HR for couple of hours a day for weeks, I had a coach once who helped me a lot with the specific ski training, training in the gym with machines, etc)

    Anyway, whenever I try a new way of training and I notice it is not working I went back to the HIT body weight strength and short “aerobic”. Which does not work either for my objectives.

    In the mountains I have tried several things as well. if I push myself to go faster I last for 2 hours and I run out of energy even if I eat (reading the book probably I run out of glycogen), I did this over and over again above 3000mts thinking that way I was going to be faster at lower altitudes. Later on I found out if I go slow I can go for long days, 6 to 10-12 hours, even if I do not eat (I know thats wrong and I shouldn’t do that anymore). Long days of low intensity with no food are good training for you and any mountain athete

    So my goal is to be able to go for several hours at a faster pace. (I have not been able to achieve that) First you need to go many hours at a slow pace before it will become a faster pace

    On other hand, in altitude… again I am super slow and it takes me so much time to adapt above 4000mts… (but I think I’ll focus on altitud later on.)

    Now when I am running in either zone 1 or 2, I feel I can go for long time, I don’t get tired at all. That is just what it should feel like

    So my questions are:
    – Is it correct the way I calculated the zones? No. Use some actual test like mentioned above

    – Should I start the transition period all over again increasing the amount of hours in zone 1-2. (For example, if I run 2hrs four times a week, 2 days of general strenght training, 1 day of rest. Is that ok?) Not necessary to start over again. I cannot tell you what is the appropriate amount of training. More LIT is almost always better as long as you can recover in 24 hours

    – or should I try to increase even more the zone 1-2 training?, how do I know if it is ok the amount of running or if is too much. See above comment

    – is it better to do 2 hours a day 2 days in a row or to do 4 hours one day and rest one day? Better to do 2 hours every day as long as you can recover overnight

    – Do I go on with the transition period as it is described in the book and then base period and so on?. Or for now should I forget about the periods and just focus on long aerobic training?. Just focus on LIT and strength for now

    – In case I have ADS, how do I know when I do not have it anymore? I read in one of the forums it takes several months. Many months in a case like yours where you have been doing HIT for years. You will see an improvement in your pace. Use the HR drift test from the article mentioned above

    – I will disregard the nose breathing as it seems is not useful for me for now.

    I would love to get a lab test done but I live in a little town in northern Patagonia, there is no way I can get a lab test done here. So I need to try to do my best with what I have.

    Thank you so much

    I hope this helps. Good luck,
    Scott


    Participant
    Coni on #8635

    Thank you so much for your answer.
    I finally got the HR sensor to paired up with the phone and record the running session. So I went out running for an hour in a flat area keeping my pace and HR below what I thought was my AeT. I put the data on training peaks and it turn out that my Pa:HR was 13.08%, so what I thought was my AeT was definitely not. I have to go way slower and to keep my HR way lower.
    Thank you so much for the advice.
    For now I have nothing else to do but to be patient and keep training at a slow pace for a looong time.
    Coni

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