No AeT improvment

  • Creator
    Topic
  • #37212
    Kellert62
    Participant

    So i had a lactate test done August 12th, the results attached below. Brief over view they set AeT at 145, from there I set my zones based on TnFUA. Since That test i have put in 116 hrs Zone 2, 48 hrs Zone 1, 4h rs recovery below z1.

    I did a HR drift test twp days ago starting with a hr of 135 at got 6-7% drift over the test.

    My question are my zone to high or can training fatigue or suppress AeT? Current load is 10-12 hrs a week. Do i need to lower hr to 135 or 130?

    Im 20 weeks from my A race and Im not worried about high intensity i just want the biggest and best AeT i can get for it.

    Thank you in advance for the advice.

    Attachments:
    You must be logged in to view attached files.

Posted In: Mountain Running

  • Keymaster
    Scott Semple on #37294

    A few questions:

    * Do you have a copy of the test in chart form? I can see the values in the spreadsheet, but it’d be nice to see a chart as well. In the XLS file, the chart is blank when I view it. Save as PDF, maybe?

    * Please confirm: Between August 12th and now, your total sub-AeT training time has been 168 hours (roughly 6.75h/wk)? And your training load now is 10-12h/wk?

    * If the above is true, why such a sudden increase in weekly hours?

    In general, once you know your AeT by a more sophisticated method (lactate or gas exchange) then you can ignore the results of less sophisticated methods (MAF, nasal breathing, drift tests, etc.)

    Participant
    Kellert62 on #37306

    Thanks for the response.

    I have attached the pdf copy of the lactate chart.

    Total Hr hours in training peaks is broke out below:
    Recovery: 4:53
    Zone 1: 48:44
    Zone 2: 117
    Zone 3: 33:23
    Zone 4: 0:18

    The above includes a few strength & ME sessions and all hill sprint sessions. Some of the zone 3 hr are off as i had chest strap HR issues and tried to use my wrist one for them. I was also was pushing the 145 hr so i did get a lot of 146-149 time.

    Also attached is the outline training plan with total hours. Strength/ME are about Strength: 22:30

    I hope this help. Thanks for taking the time to look this over. I was also thinking its about time to get another lactate test.

    Attachments:
    You must be logged in to view attached files.
    Keymaster
    Scott Semple on #37408

    Okay, thanks. That helps.

    Based on your zone breakdown, it makes sense that you wouldn’t see much improvement in AeT.

    ~17% of your total training time is above your aerobic threshold, which is way too much. (33.7 / 204 = 16.5%)

    For goal events of two hours or more, a good rule of thumb is to keep high-intensity training to 5% or less of total training time.

    Participant
    nullkru on #37494

    @Kellert62, just a question how did you get those numbers out of Training Peaks. I can’t see my self created zones in the repports?

    Keymaster
    Scott Semple on #37504

    On the Dashboard, you can add a Time Per Zone chart and then change the date range. The zone breakdown will be according to the HR zones that you’ve set under settings.

    However! If you change your number of zones or the BPM per zone, prior workouts and statistics are not updated. You would have to use the Recalculate feature to change your historical metrics. Note that if you do, however, any manual changes you’ve made to TSS will be lost.

    Does that help?

    Participant
    WillB on #37741

    Hey Scott, regarding the rule of thumb to keep high-intensity training to 5% for a goal longer than 2 hours, that excludes strength and ME training, right? Otherwise almost any plan that had a weekly strength session would require the athlete to be doing like 20 hours a week of aerobic work, but I just wanted to make sure.

    Keymaster
    Scott Semple on #37888

    Excluding strength, yes, but ME, no. ME must be included because it includes a very high-aerobic intensity.

    Include the ME work in your high-intensity volume, and shorten the total according to your general volume. Let your aerobic volume determine how much intensity you do, not vice versa.

    Participant
    nullkru on #37965

    Hi Scott,

    thanks for your answer. I tried it but still got 5 Zones that makes no sense to me. Maybe i will find it out.
    But i definitely don’t have more Z3 time than Z1/Z2. In the run analysis screen everything is fine.

    Strange but anyway wish you a nice day!

    • This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by nullkru.
    Attachments:
    You must be logged in to view attached files.
    Keymaster
    Scott Semple on #37972

    I see the issue.

    In the Dashboard, Training Peaks has the annoying habit of labeling the training zones by the order in which they appear in Settings, not by the labels that you assign.

    So in your settings, you’ve labeled the third zone as Zone 1. Training Peaks displays that zone as “Zone 3” in the Dashboard.

    But strangely, within a workout, the zone breakdown will be labeled as set under Settings.

    I have the same issue. I use nine zones, and my seventh zone is the traditional Zone 3. I just have to remember that whenever I look at the Dashboard.

    Participant
    nullkru on #38008

    Hi Scott, thanks this helped :)!
    Have a great day/evening. Greetings from switzerland — mirko

    Participant
    frank on #38213

    @kellert62 my five cents abt test protocol. If I have understood it right one should first measure lactate baseline then warm-up ~15 min slowly (to get your aerobic energy system ready).

    During the test the incline should be fixed and increase only speed. Based on the graph the incline was changed but nothing could be said about speed.

    I also wonder why the lactate levels are so high from the start?

    Participant
    PaulB on #38396

    Hi Scott,

    When doing ME work I had not been counting it as high intensity, I was counting it separately, so I’ll change that. I’m limited on my weekly training time due to work and and a kid, so I’ve probably been overdoing high intensity whenever I have done ME work. But I have a question how to count that time.

    If doing the gym based ME, would the ME time be counted as the actual “work” time, similar to doing intervals or other high intensity work? For example, if doing 4×10 of the gym-based ME workout (https://www.uphillathlete.com/strength-training-for-the-mountain-athlete/) let’s say each split jump set takes 30s to complete then the total “work” time is 2min, add in the jump squats, step ups, lunges, and the total “work” time would be maybe 9-10 minutes. The rest of the time is active rest.

    Or, would you count the entire session, so the above would be maybe 30 minutes?

    These two scenarios yield very different numbers as a percent of total training time!

    Thanks,
    Paul

    Keymaster
    Scott Semple on #38635

    Excellent question*. Just the work time counts as high-intensity. The active recoveries do not (if they’re appropriately easy). And they should be super easy.

    However, it’s a lot of work to manually keep track of. If you use a monitor with a chest strap–wrist monitors don’t count–then heart rate will be close enough. Keep your time above AeT HR to 5% or less of total training time.

    * You will see a lot of references to “80/20” training where 20% is high-intensity. When those numbers were first thrown around, training approaches were broken down based on a “session goal” approach. The 80/20 breakdown came about based on the number of workouts per session goal, not the actual training time.

    Participant
    Pete on #39822

    Hi all,

    as there are no suitable lab around my town to do a lab test in order to determine my AeT and Ant I am left to DIY tests. And here comes the problem. I am 40 years old and have been training for months now with upper limit of AeT set at 120 BP. Over the months I haven’t seen much improvement in AeT (guess that it will change less and less as I get older) but last week 3 strange things happened:
    1. did a run on a rolling terrain and got back Pa:Hr result of 1,04%. It took me 1:07:33 to ran 6,98 km (so it was a slow run). My average HR was 116 BPM and max was 129 BPM.
    2. next day did a recovery run on flat terrain and got back Pa:Hr result 6,95%. It took me 0:41:37 to ran 4,16 km (so extra slow). My average HR was 107 BPM and max was 118 BPM.
    3. Two days later did another AeT run on rolling terrain and got back Pa:Hr result of 1,27%. It took me 1:03:57 to ran 6,95 km. My average HR was 116 BPM and max was 145 BPM (during my run I did 4 x 10 sec sprints (not full speed) as recommended in training plan).

    After all the runs I felt fresh, not tired, my legs were not feeling the runs. I could easily do another run right after I was finished as Noakes puts it in his book in regards to the appropriate intensity for building aerobic capacity.

    What can I learn from these results? Why did I do so poorly on the flat run? Do I really suck so much? Or was I training at to low intensity and this was the reason for not improving as much? As I was reading through MAF method (by which my top AeT limit would be around 135-140, way higher than my current limits) I was wondering if I am training at to low intensity. Do MAF method and HR drift test correspond well to each other at all? I know that this is very individual but would like to know in general? What can an athlete do if it has no access to a proper lab testing?

    Anyways, today will do another flat run with my zones adjusted to MAF method (upper limit of AeT set to 135) just to see what happens with Pa:Hr ratio. I would really like to find proper HR zone limits as I don’t have an abundance available time for training and would like to make the best out of every minute of it.

    Thanks for any insights and thoughts on this issues.

    Many thanks and stay healthy!

    Pete

    Participant
    Dada on #39833

    Hi Pete,

    What I heared is that the Pa:Hr is pretty much useless in rolling terrain. It is best to use it on a track in a stadium. Even better is a treadmill. Is it possible to redo your AeT test on one of these?

    I’ll have to ask though: how do you measure your heartrate?

    Dada

Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 24 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.