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  • #50293
    d.c
    Participant

    Hello i was just wishing to please have a second opinion regarding a couple of new Aet tests.

    I tried to continue an old topic so as to not start a new post but the site wasn’t allowing a response on the thread, so i apologise for starting a new one.

    Back in August i established my Aet was 152.

    Shortly after i did an AnT test with an average heart rate of 189 and a max of 200. Results below

    AnT test: http://tpks.ws/UMUZB6KEIF3LNTI4FEYTRMETSU

    I just wanted to show the last 2 Aet tests i did a couple of weeks ago to see if I’ve cured my ADS.
    The first was negative, so the second i aimed for 171ish at the start, and from what i could tell got a drift of 3.1%.

    Both tests were on a treadmill with a 3%incline, with the 15min warmup and i was using a polar heart strap.

    First test (negative) Aet Jan 5:http://tpks.ws/XLKOT3QKOWHMZTI4FEYTRMETSU

    Second test (drift of 3.1 %?) Aet Jan 7:http://tpks.ws/Y5YTC4ZXUTVOJTI4FEYTRMETSU

    i still get these weird drops in HR like i always have been, which i think is a connectivity issue. Scott suggested back in august to use aloe vera which i did and it somewhat helped but I think it comes down to being a bit bony, or when i blow my nose or random stuff like that. Ive gone through 2 heart straps so the issue cant be put done to one.

    I put in around 780 hours of zone 1 and 2 work last year and think I’m ready to add zone 3 work now given what the tests indicated, but i just wished to see what others thought.

    i felt really fresh after each of those recent Aet tests.

    Would i be correct in setting 171-173 HR as the top of my Zone 2?

    Many thanks

    d

  • Moderator
    Shashi on #50405

    I put in around 780 hours of zone 1 and 2 work last year

    This is amazing. Congratulations!

    Just to confirm – is your speed consistent for the duration of the AeT test (after warm-up)?

    Participant
    d.c on #50413

    Thankyou Shashi.

    The treadmill’s speed and incline was set at minute 13 of the warmup, and was held for the duration of the test.
    Sometimes my cadence probably picked up and then decreased in relation to the music being listened to, which might of affected the pace element of the recordings.

    Moderator
    Shashi on #50440

    Thanks for the clarification.

    About 10 minutes into the test is when your HR stabilizes around 167, so I just looked at the remaining 50 minutes and average heart rate for the two 25 minute periods. You do get a low HR drift but the HR dropouts and HR downward trend towards the end make it difficult to calculate the true drift.

    Given your Z1/Z2 volume since August, your AeT has definitely improved and but not sure I would set it to 170+.

    I will reach out to Scott Semple and request to provide some feedback on your AeT test.

    Regarding HR dropout issue, DC Rainmaker has some good articles on this issue. You might have already tried the recommendations to fix the issue, but just something to consider.

    Keymaster
    Scott Semple on #50788

    Sorry for the delay. We normally recommend a 15-minute warm-up followed by a 60-minute test. With ~3% including the warm-up, this pace might be over AeT. Can you do another test with the required warm up?

    Participant
    d.c on #50797

    Sorry for the confusion Scott but it was a 15 min warmup, i just set the final incline and speed at minute 13.

    What ive posted is the full 60 minute test. I stopped the watch after the 15 min warmup and then started a recording a new activity so there was the full 60 min duration.

    Keymaster
    Scott Semple on #51531

    I had another look at this. Based on the two tests (AnT and Jan 7th AeT), I think you can use 190 and 170 as your respective thresholds.

    If AeT continues to rise, then you’ll want to use a different threshold test (either lactate or gas exchange) and also prioritize pace at each threshold. Once HRs stop converging measuring them against pace will be helpful, but only measuring HR won’t tell you much.

    Participant
    d.c on #51839

    Thankyou so much Scott,
    I’ve only just read this after already conducting another AeT test after you suggested it, and i wanted to try and give something abit less weird HR wise for you to interpret.

    Since its been a couple of months i targeted 175 given the amount of training I’ve been doing, hoping to get within the 10% range so i could start adding speed work.

    I recorded 1 hour 15mins, (the beginning 15min being the warmup) and the heart rate drift seems around 2%

    http://tpks.ws/5LI6QBCV2LEFDTI4FEYTRMETSU

    Treadmill settings were locked in at around the 12 minute mark.

    Would i be ok to set the AeT threshold at 175? Im sorry to ask once again for your opinion / advice, but its truly the last time.

    i feel like its pretty on point, with how the effort felt, and how i feel afterwards despite being the weather being incredibly humid.

    Anyway if anything i just wanted to extend a huge thank you for the time you spent interpreting the data, i really appreciate it.

    i started focusing on developing my base just shy of a year ago and my threshold was around 135, so these forums have been such an inspiration to read during that time.

    Participant
    russes011 on #51842

    DC,

    I second Sashi in congratulating you on ~15hr/week of <AeT training for the past year.

    I’m curious about a few things, if you don’t mind me asking some questions.

    To not sidetrack your thread I started a new one with my questions here.

    — Steve

    Moderator
    Shashi on #51878

    d.c – can you please make your workout public? When I clicked on the link I got the message “Workout Not Public”

    Participant
    d.c on #51883

    Sorry it should be working now

    http://tpks.ws/5LI6QBCV2LEFDTI4FEYTRMETSU

    Participant
    hokiehead on #51899

    Trying to more rigorously adopt the training from TFTNA. I’m in the midst of “Transition Week 1” right now. One of my challenges is that most of my conditioning for the previous year has been on an indoor bike, not ground based.

    On my indoor bike, I can ride fairly aggressively and hold Z1/Z2 for over an hour, but when running, I get into Z3 after about 3/4 mile, no matter how slowly I go. My strategy this week has been to monitor my HR, and take walk breaks whenever I enter Z3, and then resume running when I get to Z1. graph attached.

    is this a recommended strategy until I can run for 45 minutes w/out walk breaks, or is there something better?

    a few notes:

    • I’m using a chest strap HRM, connected to a Garmin Fenix 5x
    • I live and do almost all aerobic training between 8500′ – 9000′
    • short term goals are to be able to complete big days run/walking in the Colorado high peaks this summer (e.g. Wilson traverse, 22mi, 8600′ gain)
    • longer term goals are Rainier (next year) and Denali (2 years)

    TIA

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by hokiehead.
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    Moderator
    Shashi on #51907

    troyshenry – can you please post your question as a new topic? It will keep the discussion aligned to the original topic and member questions.

    Once you have posted a new topic, I will delete the question here.

    Participant
    hokiehead on #51914

    done. apologies if I wasn’t conforming to the “forum norms” here. I’m a new poster on uphillathlete; other forums in which I participate discourage starting new threads in favor of finding one related to another member’s new point or question.

    Keymaster
    Scott Johnston on #51932

    @hokie head. Welcome to the forum. Thanks for writing in. The reason you are seeing such disparate results between cycling and running is why we tell folks that if they are preparing for a foot borne event they need to train on their feet. With this extensive recent cycling history you no doubt have pretty poor running economy. It is costing you too much energy to run even at a slow pace. There is only one way to fix this and it won’t be on bike. It will involve a high volume of, at this point, very easy jogging. It’ll probably feel ridiculously slow but it will get faster.

    Good luck,
    Scott

    Keymaster
    Scott Johnston on #51933

    @DC.

    Based on these recent tests I think you can use 170-175 as your AeT. Some days it will be higher and some days lower depending on your recovery state. When it feels easy then push up to 175 for some of you Z2 training. When it feels more effortful you probably are not ready for a Z2 run and should drop down 15-20bpm for that day. Chances are you will feel better the ext day.

    With an AnT of 190 I would say that you should be doing very little training in Z2 and when you do it should be a tempo workout of planned duration. Not a random trail run where you are in and out of Z2 for 2 hours. A really solid aerobic boost can come from 20-40 min at 175 for you. But don’t consider that easy mileage.

    Your last year of 780hrs of aerobic base work has done the trick and I feel pretty certain you are not aerobically deficient.

    I think you’re poised to see gains by beginning to sprinkle in some intensity. If you’ve not been doing them I suggest methods for introducing intensity when you’ve had a long break from it: 6-8 x 8-10sec hill sprints with long (>2min) recovery and an easy run with pick ups (strides). During a Z1 run toss in 5-6x 10-15 sec accelerations up to a fun fast speed. Not a full sprint. Take about 3 min easy between. These begin to build some of the running specific muscular endurance that will make the transition to a higher volume of intensity. Do these for at least 6 weeks. You should notice an increase in your easy running pace. Then try adding 30-30s (see our article on books about these).

    Scott

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